Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Welcome to the Production Talk podcast with me, Yarn, of mixartists.com.au. In this podcast series, we celebrate the modern way of producing music. We want to talk about all things related to songwriting, recording at home and music production. So, if you produce your music at home, this is the place to be. Please subscribe and recommend this podcast to all your friends. This is the Production Talk Podcast episode 62. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Welcome back to another episode of the Production Talk podcast. At the beginning of this episode, as always, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the country that the following interview is recorded on, the Arakwal people of the Bundjalung nation. And I would like to pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Today is a special day. We have another interview going this time across the pond between Australia and Europe, Hamburg and Germany to be specific. And with me today is Mr. Chris harms of lot of the loss to welcome to the podcast. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Thank you young for inviting me and good to seeing you again digitally, at least after I think six, 16 years Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Something like that. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): not, yeah. Of just writing emails back and forth. Yeah. Crazy. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: right. That's right. So we are on the other side of the world and we haven't seen each other for such a long time. So I I've been in Australia since 2006. So I think, were you there at the goodbye party? We had drinks together. Didn't we, were you there on that night or the night before? I know Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I am sure Jan 'Yarn' Muths: of, of you and Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I am. I'm I'm sure I was Jan 'Yarn' Muths: bye-bye and I had the backpack and I was literally about to hit the road to, to go to Australia. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I remember having some, I remember being on some goodbye party with you, but I don't remember where it was actually. Do you remember? Jan 'Yarn' Muths: I wouldn't be surprised if all our memories were a little bit vague here. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. But, but do, do you remember how that was? Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Look, I think we went to Papa, the name of Down Under first, and then we went to various places on, on Reeperbahn and eventually, you know, people send me off and I went to the train station and yeah, buggered off and started new life in Australia. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I just had to think about you you a couple days ago, because I drove by the old building where I actually met you first at SAE Institute where you've been my teacher and this old building has just been tear down a couple of months Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Oh, really? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): it's yeah, it's it's, it's gone. It's it's it's vanished. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Oh, wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I just, I, I just thought like, like how many amazing people I met there, you're one of them. And I learned a lot of lot from you there. And that actually everything I'm doing right now, artist wise, most of the people I work together with for years now, everything started there. Even members of my band, I met at students of mine later. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): it's fuck fucking crazy. Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: It it's amazing and music it's this family where things can happen. And it's just unbelievable. Look in, I haven't seen you for such a long time and you've come such a long way. So just to spoil the punchline for everybody, you've just returned from a huge tour across all across Europe, playing with iron maiden. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Is that right? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): that's right. We played 18 shows in 16 countries. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Within two months and in the middle we Jan 'Yarn' Muths: some photos and wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): In the middle, we played like, I don't know, 10 festivals in between maiden shows and some headliner shows, which were obviously smaller. It's it's unbelievable. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: you say smaller, are we talking 300 people or 400 people? What do you mean Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Smaller, like, like lot of lost audience is from, it depends where we are. If we are like, I don't know, at the end of the world, somewhere in China, then we are lucky when 200 people come and if we play like in Germany or Finland or not anymore at the moment, but Russia, we play in front of 1000, 2000 people sometimes. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): That's smaller compared to iron Maden, of course, much, much smaller because Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Of course. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): smallest venue we played with Maden was 20,000. I think the biggest was 65,000. So Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Wow. Wow. That's just ridiculous. Oh, wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): mean, not, not, not, not everyone was there already when we played, because obviously we played earlier, but this, but the Jan 'Yarn' Muths: on. Don't play down. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): no, no, the stadiums were already filled like 50 to 80% and yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And there was an Australia band with us also airborne. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Oh, cool. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): They were with us for, for like eight or nine shows. So some on some shows we were two support bands, so yeah. And very, very nice guys or very nice lads, I should say. And yeah, I like them a lot. So. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: look, Chris. A long time ago now we worked together. You had several different bands going productions going and for it. Couple of shows. I was your life sound engineer. And I remember we played a show together. Was it GOFI height in Hamburg? I'm not quite sure it was, it might have been that one. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And I think, you know, Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): another band. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: yeah, we had not that many people there, you know, it was, it was like 200 people. I'm not even Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Not, not even maybe, maybe 90 Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, really. All right. All Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah, yeah, it was. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: So, you know, those were different days when, you know, you were the musician at the beginning of your career and you know, building now you are on the other end. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Just give me a couple of the big milestones. What, what, what have I missed? What happened in between. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): All right. I mean like, like when you. Left Germany in 2006, I was still in the middle of like kind of searching where I wanted to go, trying things with different musical projects. And then just one year later, I I met my wife. Who's now my wife, I met her in Belen and you know, all these feelings that come up when you fall in love and stuff, it does so many things with you and it was so inspiring. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I wrote this record. Which did not fit into any of my musical project. So I, I decided to start to record it alone on myself and being a sound engineer and musician. And yeah, I, I could just do it. And that was the start of lot of lost. And of course I can't go on stage alone. So two years later in 2009, I had a life band and we started, and then we, there were some milestones in between like our first big support tour was the supporting a big German band in 2012. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And yes, then many things happened in between. Then we had a label change and went more international in 2018 and had our first top 10 German chart. Entry now the last record Judas went on top two in their official German album charts. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: That's fantastic. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): at the same time, I found my way as a composer for other people and also sound engineer and Music producer at the same time, I, I was still like lecturing at SAE Institute until 2019, I think. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I had my first gold records coming in and all these things and yeah, crazy, crazy things happened step by step by yeah. Not giving up and working, working, working, and that never stopping, you know, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, right. Wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So this is, I, I always have to laugh when people congratulate me to my overnight success. And then I'm like, if you're talking about a 20 year long night, then thank you. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So Jan 'Yarn' Muths: they're well said. So it is really not what people see from the outside. You know, they just see you on the big stage and, but you've, you've done your. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of work and it's a lot of What's English word alpha, then I Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Sacrifice Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. Yeah. Lot. Lots Jan 'Yarn' Muths: lot of sacrifices. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. Lots of all that, that most people do not see. And you know, if you, if you wanna be rock and roll and true in the metal and R scene, people expect you to eat it and sleep on the floor and can't have any luxury. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And as soon as you get there and you can afford your own hotel room, then you'll like a sellout. So , it's, it's always funny to see. So, but, you know, fuck it. It's been a long way and I'm, I'm proud of the things I have reached because I know that I have worked for it. And I always worked with a great team. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It's it's not my success alone. It's it's I always work together with people and I am so thankful that I have all them to work together with them because I could have never made it until here alone on myself. And I wouldn't have wanted Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Hmm, look you mentioned this cliche of being, you know, that starving musician and Part of this cliche is that, you know, people who are at the beginning of the career and are not making, you know, a good income yet, they're often faced by discouragement, by people who say, you know, quit it study, you know, work at a bank, don't be a musician. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And you know, setbacks happen, you know? Did any of this happen to you? And, and if so, how did you get past it? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I had lots of setbacks, of course. So. You know, men on, on personal levels, things happen where you are doubting everything you do. And then I don't know, you, you start a production with a band and they don't pay you, or they don't like what you did. And, and you or you, you break up with band members and you just don't get forward. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You, you can't make the numbers that the label expect. And if you lose the label, you lose this, you lose that people suing you. Whatever I had all these things. But you know, there was not really an alternative. The only other thing that I liked was LEC. I, I love that. I, I, I love that a lot. And when you left for Australia, I got actually all your, your lectures. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So you, you gave me all the things that you lectured. So, so this is where it's, it started to get really interesting because you left and I could continue all your lectures, which like the signal flow for the big studio and all these things. And so this would've been my only alternative, like going more into LEC. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): But maybe because I did so many jobs parallel at the same time and I kind of still do, I just had to quit lecturing. I still do. I still work as a musician and as a composer for others and as a music producer I think that helped me because I never just relied on one thing. But what I never did was to learn something, you know, what. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): My parents would've expected. so there was no Jan 'Yarn' Muths: drop. Yeah. Mm. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I've I, I never had any job interview anywhere, so I never had a boss, like a real one, even at SAE Institute, we were freelancers, you know, so Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Mm. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I can compare, but I I'm happy that I fought through it all these years. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Okay. Wow. Have you got any advice for other younger musicians, you know, less experienced musicians, experienced musicians who are struggling with, you know, this kind of self doubt, what's the best way to deal with that and move on mentally, you know, how, how do you, how do you Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): like what, what, what I always tried for me was to. Two things first keep things interesting for me. So when I thought like I wanted to change, I always embraced the change. So when I felt like, Hey my band or whatever musical project is going in this direction, but maybe I feel more like going in this direction. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I just did it. And I didn't wait. I not like waiting till the album was released. Then one year later you start writing new songs or whatever. I just. Finishing one record always meant like always writing the other one and being open about creativity and about changes. And the second thing is being authentic. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And I think both things go together because if you, when you always do what you love most, and if you allow yourself to be your biggest fan, which for me is not meant in an arrogant way. If you. Be cool with you, like your stuff most otherwise. Why, why would you do something you don't like most, you know, like to do the, do, do the second best for you? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Then you, you, you stay authentic. So embracing the change and it helps you being authentic and the other way around, and this is what I always did. So embrace the change. Be fast. Don't wait, because some bands go like, yeah, no, we found a label. We are releasing the album. Then we go on tour and then we sit together and whoever comes up with the first idea for something next. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): We're doing a second album. No, one's gonna wait for you if you know. No, if you are, if you're not lady Gaga who can wait like for 10 years and then she will go number one, because people wait for her record. If you are iron maiden, if you're not like on that level, people don't wait. So don't, don't stop. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Don't like, let lie down because you just finished one Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Don't wait for it. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): No, don't wait for it. So, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, that's really good advice. Thanks, Chris. That's really good advice. I'd like to steer back to, to the touring life for, for a moment, if that's okay. Look, I meant to actually ask that that, ask that earlier, but can you please introduce your band members? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yes, of course we, we are five piece span. If I'm singing, so just let me start with me. So we have that off the table. I'm also playing guitar here and there on stage. My guitar is not needed though. I play when I want. So, because it's just fun. In the studio, I also do like programming jobs and I'm a, I'm a classical, shallow player, as you might remember. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I use Jan 'Yarn' Muths: do. Yes. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And Jan 'Yarn' Muths: You do play she on stage as well. Occasionally don't Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yes on we, when we do acoustic shows, classical shows, I do that. And it's, it's kind of, it it's, it's not easy because like the voice and also the cello is a, FRT less instrument, like intonation, like two things at a time. This is kind of a tough, tough job, but yeah. And then the other guys in the band is like the classical drum based guitar. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Plus we have a keyboard is or guitar player Jan 'Yarn' Muths: the names? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): his name is P or P like, like the number 3.14. He I met him as my SAE student. Like seven years ago or something, we still had different guitars at that time. And so he joined after being, being done with SAE. He joined us as guitar tech on tour and our old guitars decided to get a real job and changed his life and started working for. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): For apple and turn away from music. So he went from guitar tech to guitarist actually in 2016. And then we have Nick, our drummer is a drummer from the German medal scene, which I know for more than 12, 13 years or 10, or I don't know. And he joined the band in 2016 also. We had, we, we needed a drama change and then we have, you might actually know him class on bass guitar. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You might know him from MP town in Hamburg or just music later. He worked there at the guitar. You know, where SAE in Hamburg was then at the bunker, we had the music store Jan 'Yarn' Muths: do remember that Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I, I think if you see him, you will remember him. He was one of the Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm not good with names, but I'm good with faces. Usually I recognize faces my my oldest guitar player, Tom, Tom Boones used to work there so they would know each other. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I'm sure you would recognize him. And yeah, I met him 20 years ago and we, we got. Over the years. And at one time I asked him for a different musical project. Hey, do you wanna join this band? He said like, no, not right now. Don't have time, but next time you ask me for whatever band it is, I'm gonna say yes. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So in 28 I ask him like, Hey, I have this new band Lord of a loss. Do you wanna play? He said like, yes, I don't know what it is, but I promised you to say yes. he joined the band Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Oh, Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): and then we have Jared who, who is. Crazy musician. He plays all the instruments. He he's got perfect pitch by birth, of course. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And yeah, he's our piano player. And I also met him as a student in, I don't know, 2010 or something or nine? No, not nine, eight, fuck eight. He joined the band like in the very beginning. Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Well, creative bunch. So you're basically yeah. Bringing up your own musical family there in some ways. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You know, those, those guys are, are my best, my best friends. They are my brothers. And I think this makes us strong as a band and Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Cool. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): also the crew. And we don't make any difference between. Between crew and band. When we on tour in the studio, we are actually doing songwriting camps together for our records, like involving people of the crew. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): There's no hierarchy like yeah. That the crew is somehow lower than the band or that bullshit, which I sometimes see with other bands, which I fucking hate because I think attitude is something which you should have on stage. But not off stage off stage. We are all the same. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: that's a great thing to say. I love that. Mm Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): and yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: So how, how much crew do you have when you tour. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): it depends when we do oversee things, we can go very small with just sound light and maybe one first stage. And then we rent people from those countries because sometimes it's just not affordable. But when we are in Germany or like central Europe and going with a night liner, then we are like, We have five piece band and we, we are on tour with all in all 12 to 18 people. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It depends on how, how big the show are. Sometimes you need two people for the merge or for big festival. So you need three back liners on stage or four instead of two. And so it, sometimes you need two, two bus drivers when the distances are getting longer. So ever it's Jan 'Yarn' Muths: a huge production. Wow. That's really Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): is. Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And Chris, you are welcome to ignore this question. If you don't wanna answer it, but. I'm just curious, you know, as a dad, myself, how, how do you manage with family life and touring life? Is that difficult for you? Feel free to Dodge this question. If you're Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): no, no, that that's totally fine with me. My son is 11 now and in the beginning when he was a baby, it, it was only difficult for me. Because he didn't really recognize. And now the, now it's like, he's old enough to understand and he understood one thing and this is really important. And maybe it's even better for him having me as a dad than the typical nine to five or nine to seven office dad. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Because when I'm in Hamburg, when I'm not on tour, which is more than half of the year, I only work when he's at school. or when he's sleeping. So I always plan my studio days with exceptions. Of course, if we, I dunno, having deep purple in the studio or things like that, then I'm staying longer. But actually I'm only working from like eight till afternoon. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And then later when he's in bed. So when I'm in Hamburg, it's always me who wakes him up in the morning doing breakfast. Okay. Meanwhile, he's doing the breakfast because he likes it. Then I pick him up from school if he wants to be picked up because sometimes it's not cool anymore. And then we, we do things so, or I take him to the studio. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): He knows many people from the bands that I'm producing. He loves that. He's a little drummer himself, so He understands that sometimes I'm gone sometimes even for four weeks or longer. So she, he, he doesn't see me, then we can FaceTime or talk, but I never force him. I'm never making him miss me. Like, do you miss me? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Let's talk tomorrow. I'm just waiting for him to come up. Because sometimes for five days he doesn't even recognize, you know, so I don't make him miss me, although I miss him terribly every day. But then when I come back on, on tour, I might be here for seven. And he's got me from the afternoon till he goes to bed. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Oh, wow. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So, and so, you know, I think both of us have understood that it might be even cooler than having the typical nine to five or longer dad that comes home at seven or later, sees the kids for half an hour. And then maybe on Sunday. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: I think this is really impressive, Chris you are living the dream basically. You know, this is the life that I, that I literally want for, for me and my boy and I I'm guilty of working too much, occasionally. So. Fatherhood, you know, is, is a hard thing. It's not easy. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah. Thank you for saying that. And I'm aware Jan 'Yarn' Muths: something I can learn from you. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Well, you know, I'm aware of that. I'm living the dream. So I'm not trying to reflect my dreams on my kid. I'm trying to, you know, what, what many parents do. And also I'm not taking that for granted. So I, I know that I'm. Privileged. I know I worked hard for it, but I'm, I'm never complaining about my job because I'm never complaining about fans showing up and recognizing me in the supermarket and these things it's part of the job is what I chose. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And I I'd never complain because that would be presumptuous. And you know, I'm thankful for what I have. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: You have got such a good attitude around those things. That's really inspiring. Thank you for sharing that, you know, with me and, and the listeners. That's fantastic. Look, if that's okay with you, I'd like to steer in a new direction. Can you talk us through sort of like a songwriting workflow? You know, you've really so many records. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: I'm sure there's many differences, but if you had to draw up sort of like, you know, the standard where songs come together from the rehearsal room to, to the studio. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): that's the thing. There's no standard way, but I can tell you some scenarios, like two hours ago, I was, I was in the studio doing some edits and then I, something came up and I was like, there's some gibberish English. I don't know. I just go on the piano because I heard something in my head. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It's like a radio. Playing in my head. And then I go there and in some gibberish wo just record it. And if I like it three days later I'm gonna produce a demo. I stop producing demos of everything I'm hearing because I let time be a filter. If I don't think it's important, three days later, it wasn't a good song. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): This can be one thing. The other thing can be that I sit down. Bandmates or people from my crew or people that I like are my friend and studio colleague, Ike, which you just interviewed a couple of weeks back. We wrote like five or six songs for a lot of lost together. We just sit down and someone comes in with an idea, or we start things from scratch. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Like what do, what do we wanna do today? And another thing can be like more people sitting together at a songwriting camp, which I like that you go to a different place or you meet in the studio and for three days work on a project and then. Two or two or three two or three piece teams and they change every day. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So you put people together that might never have worked with, but it's, this can be a different scenario. And maybe my favorite one is because I like to work alone, but I don't like to work alone. that means I, I, I, I start an, I start an idea. I have an idea. I start to, to do a demo because some most things that I haven't had in my head is like chorus, chorus, melody, the carts. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And I like it and the rest is missing. And then I give it to someone To bandaid or something. And then he does something. I get the session back. So we're sending things back and forth. Also overseas with people like in the digital times, we can do that. I could write a song with you, like playing. I called it ping pong. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So we are doing ping pong songwriting, and I love that. And sometimes it goes. It's just ping and pong, and then the song is done. Sometimes you play a whole match over a couple of weeks, which I find extremely interesting. And I do that for two reasons. First is I just like it. Second. I really might get stuck. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And if you switch of your ego, like I just want my name and the credits. Fuck it. It's about art. I started being a musician because. I love music is what I have to do. I didn't start it because I, I wanted the credits , you know, so sometimes I just get stuck, so I give it to someone and it, I find it so inspiring and. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): The last scenario can be that someone is approaching me just for top lining means to just the vocal melodies, which just happened like two years ago with a check band called DRI it's. They are super big in the CZE Republic. It's like the. It's like their, the check Slipknot. They also have masks and stuff, and they ask me to do vocal lines, like top lines on their record. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And today I just received the check golden record from them. So, you know, I, I, I, I didn't write any of the songs, the like the instrumental basis. So I just, they just sent me the instrumentals and I just, just did my thing and tried to did some arrangements and, and made demos also, and giver gibberish English. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And they wrote some check lyrics to it and use my melodies, not for all songs, but for some, and this can be super interest. It's also part of songwriting, but I was the last one in the chain. I didn't start it. So I was the pong, not the ping Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, right. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): so Jan 'Yarn' Muths: oh, that's cool. Look, just a practical question. When you say you, you ping pong the sessions form back, do you all work in the same DW to make that work or do you exchange bundles of wave files or do you use, you know, in, in w in DW collaboration features Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I just, you know, I, I don't do those collaborations features or, or cloud based things. It's always too buggy for me. Or like working real time with audio taxi or things. I'm just always checking first, like on what are they working on or what is my partner working on? And when they say like, Hey, I'm working on logic, which is my go to for creative. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I, I wouldn't mix in logic. I I'm a, I'm a proto guy, so, but just for creative things, I like logic. And then they're like, yeah, let's use logic. Let's just use the internal sounds. So then you're like 100% compatible if they go like, oh, but I, I need to work with Steven slate drums. And I check if I have it or I just buy it. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And then we, we are compatible, you know, If someone's working on studio one and we are like three people, the other one's working on pro tools and the other one on Cubase and maybe whatever, then we are just exchanging wave files and, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Right. Mm. And then you just agree on, you know, a common, separate, and the same timeline. I guess you always start from the same start point. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): you know, like working with musicians mean that most of them don't care about these things. So get fucked up all the time, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, they Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): you know, in, in the end it always works out somehow. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Creativity can be messy. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah, abso absolutely. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Good. All right. Look, and you are also a producer and, you know, recording engineer and record producer. Is that right? How do you find time for all of this? In addition to being in a full time musician, that sounds like a very busy schedule. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): First, like I, I use the, my calendar so it's like, you know, it's just like, I'm I'm I don't find time planning that hard. If, if, once you learn that you work with a buffer size, which is big, like 30 per percent or something, then I always get along with that. And Jan 'Yarn' Muths: me just break that down for a moment. So when, when you plan on your calendar, you add buffers and therefore you always have time for the unforeseen, which eventually will happen. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yes. And I, I, those buffers are all. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: a smart thing. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I have to, you know, like, because, and also some bands sometimes are even faster, but like I add buffers and if I don't know the people, I try to estimate, or I start with like 25 or 30%. If I work with an artist a second time, then I know I might even don't need a buffer or need like 100% and of course you can get sick or something. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): But, and the second thing is I, I outsource a lot. I'm a, I'm a team player. I'm not a one man show. So I say like, it. For vocal tuning. It's always, like, I always ask Jared, our keyboardist in the band with perfect pitch. He's so much faster than me. I, I just sent him the sessions and go like do it. So he gets like, he gets paid by song. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So this is what he's doing. Like all the beat, detective things for drums or whatever. I outsource that the only edits that I do as a producer, It's always vocal edited because vocal edit for me is something that the producer has to do. I wouldn't ever outsource that. It's so Jan 'Yarn' Muths: the, Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): elemental. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: choosing the, the right bits for the golden take Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And also also cleaning the consonants. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So all the, the case and tease and all like the way I want it. And like choosing from the playlist, the different takes, this is something I would never give to, to an intern, like an. Practical practicum. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: intern. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): intern intern? Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: assistant? Yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Or someone who's quite new, they can watch, they can check how I'm doing that, but this is what I'm doing, but yeah, I'm a team player and I'm more comfortable when I'm producing a record. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): When I'm the executive producer from the outside, deciding things, doing. Being responsible for doing certain parts my own, and then outsourcing things like I have someone starting the mix and then I come in with fresh ears at the end of the mix, you know, all Jan 'Yarn' Muths: That makes Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): This is, this is why I can be involved within, I don't know. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Five to 15 album productions per year. I could not do this as a one man show because I only have time for the studio. Like I dunno, 100 days a year. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Because you've basically got a team of specialists and they all have their responsibilities and you can delegate. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yes. And you know, we are all, I have a team of. We were all generalists, which is a good thing, but we all can be a specialist for one thing. And like you be the, you be the specialist for drum, drum editing for this production, you know, and I think this is also one of my superpowers. I am not perfect in anything, but I'm good in many things, I'm kind of good in many things and compiling these things. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Like I think. I, I like it that way. I wouldn't like to be perfect in just one thing, doing just one thing all the time. So, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): you know, never, never be afraid of asking people for help. Like always admit that you're, you're not perfect for that when someone comes like, yeah, but when, you know, when all the, the the, these top step elements came in like 10 years ago or something. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Don't be afraid to ask, like, how do I do this fucking wobble baseline? You know, just get someone for it. One of the kids that do that at home with fruity loops, you know, don't be afraid to let people in your team. So put your ego aside once again, also to producer, it helps a lot. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: That's really good advice. I really like that. Do you also produce your own record or do you get different producers in when it comes down to recording and finishing your mix? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I started doing all these things by myself and then for our third album in 2012, I decided I, I realized that I was better. When I was mixing, like producing was fine, but when it came to post production mix and later mastering I realized that I was better if I did it for other artists, because I was so in Germany we have the nice what the deep splint , you know, how would how, how would you, how would you translate that? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You know, you. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: mm. You you're just too close to it. That's what you're saying. Yeah. You're you're yeah, right. Mm Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I, the third lot of lost record I gave to I CRE. For mixed on. And meanwhile, I'm always checking, like, in which direction is the album going? So I maybe just invite someone as a co-producer from the very beginning, because it comes from a certain angle or from a certain, from certain sound aesthetics, which I would like for the record and so on. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So it's, it is actually, there's actually not a big difference. Like if it's a lot of lost production or a different one, but I am trying not. What? No, that's wrong to say that I'm intentionally not doing everything on my own, because I know it's better if I'm not doing everything because of yeah. Being too close to it. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Right. So. I guess that's, that's the advice we, we can take from you to, to not necessarily produce oneselves if we can avoid it and get other people to help out, because that is definitely a, a problem. I think it's the hardest thing, you know, I find it myself, look editing a podcasting. My own voice is the hardest thing in the world. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: For me, Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah, I Jan 'Yarn' Muths: cueing somebody else's voice is easy, but my own voice, I, you know, it's, it's always hard. So getting other people to do. Some of the work is, I guess that's a, do you struggle to trust people? Do you, do you struggle to let go? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Mm, it depends on the people. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, of course. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): if you, no there, there are, there are people over the years, which I fully trust and I, I wouldn't even question. It's like we, we were in situations where I was on the road and there was no opportunity for me to check a final master of a production I was involved in because of internet or whatever, you know, Dropbox link didn't load, but we had to finalize it. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): But I knew that the guy who was doing it to this guy is Benny from my team. Who's one, my closest production partner for 90% of everything I'm doing. I, I know if. Says, it's the way, how you like it. I don't need your advice right now. We can send it. Then I trust him because he, before I say it, most of the time, he actually knows what, what my input would be anyway. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So I don't have trust. Trust is issues. I think I have the very normal thing. Like when I meet new people, Of course, I, I want to trust them, but I, I just can't because you need to experience, I think maybe trust is, is, is such a hard word, you know? Yeah, I think Jan 'Yarn' Muths: It needs to build. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): no, I, I, I can let go. I'm not a control freak, so it's Yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It's, it's not a sickness. I, I like things I like things being controlled, but I I like to know everything in detail and UN actually understand it. You know, I'm the guy that looks up things and Wikipedia like every 20 minutes all day. So I want to know everything, but Jan 'Yarn' Muths: a sponge. You're just soaking at Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Mm. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): no with, with the right people. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I, I can let go. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Well, that's, that's a really good thing. I think that's a healthy thing Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You know, it's Jan 'Yarn' Muths: I guess otherwise it, it, it limits your growth. If you can never let go. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): you know, it's the same thing. Like with that, that podcast here, I wouldn't ask you to let me check it because I I've known you for, so for such a long time, I know you will make it sound right. And I know if you think that some, some things in the podcast sound weird or whatever you edit them out yourself. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So this is something I wouldn't check you. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Mm. Okay. Well, podcast is one thing, but you know, your own record obviously is I guess something like your own baby and something very personal. Let's just talk about the albums you've produced. Look, what, what, I'm not interested in genres. I'm interested in music that takes me on a journey. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: That's what I learned about myself, that, you know, music that is sort of like static stays in the same pocket for too long St. Bores me and I always need things that have movement and surprises and get loud and get quiet. I haven't found that many bands that are so colorful in many ways. You know, a lot of the lost is so unique in a way that I guess the genre is somewhere in, I guess it's metal. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: There's a bit of goth there. There's definitely some industrial in there, but there's so much else in there. And then suddenly I go to a Swan songs and there. In orchestra piece without vocals. That reminds me of the most amazing film score. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: How, how do you come up with that? how, how can you be so colorful musically, tell me more about, you know, where these ideas come from. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I, I think like, you know, one thing, what I said earlier, embrace a change. So always try to sound different. The, our Swan songs, which for the listeners is who don't know, Lord of lost is our acoustic ensemble or classical unpled call it whatever you want. Version. We started doing that like seven years ago or something. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Taking metals, our, our regular songs and putting them into classical versions with vocals also released instrumentals, of course. So this is something like our internal site project, so to say but first yeah, embrace the change. You know, if you want to sound different, sound different, I can tell you where it's coming from. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And I think like every band. Every band. I know says we don't have one genre. I mean the no, no, mu I've never met. I've never met a musician. Who's like, what music do you do? And he says, black metal only that never happened. You know, it's like they always say like, yeah, we don't really fit in. And you know, but the other thing is don't, don't give a fuck about what, what people might like. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It, it sounds so arrogant, but you know, if you. Don't do what you would love most at that very moment. How can you be authentic? Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You, you go like, okay, let's check Spotify numbers. And our last hit singles and bland this song, we need this length and this key and this tempo. And if we analyze our YouTube clicks our most blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then you do an album which might be the most successful, but in worst case, you, you fucking hate it. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So. Just do whatever you want. But to back to your question, how we come up with these different things. I don't know. It just, it just happens. Maybe it's just my musical taste, you know? I same, same for me. What you just said. I don't care about genres. I don't care if it's pop or hip hop or metal or funk or goth or whatever. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): If a song moves me and makes me feel something, then, then I lo that's enough for me. You know, I, I don't even need to know more things about the artists. Sometimes, sometimes it's just a song that moves me and I like it. And I don't care if it's true or not, or if I'm allowed to listen to it because the metal community might thrown about it or fuck it, you know? And if, if you are that open minded about things and if you know, the most interesting thing about good songs is, is for me, I mean, good is relative of course, but for me, a good song is a song which can be put into any genre. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Mm. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): a song works in any genre, then it means the basis, the base of the song. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): It's right. And there's always the same things. It's harmonies, there's rhythm, there's melodies, except for some genres, if you just have noise techno, then you might miss the harmonies also the melodies, but you have the, these three elements maximum plus lyrics, of course. And it doesn't matter if they are played by string quarted or by a black metal band or by a German folk music brass band, they have lower. Yeah, it's the same way you, or by adjustment, you can, you can have the same baseline played by a synthesizer by a tuba by upright base or by a distorted short scale black metal base. It doesn't matter. So if the song is good, it works in any genre. And this is what I find super interesting. That's why. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Our songs also work in the classical outfit when we are doing our Swan songs. And I can tell you how fucking great it is to stand in. Lighty in Germany, in front of two and a half thousand people with like an 80 piece orchestra around you playing your songs without any electric guitars. It's amazing. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Wow. Wow. That, that sounds phenomenal. Do you have any videos? Is there anything out Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I, I, I, I can send you it's like it was 2013. It's it's a festival called Gothic meets classic classic with a K at the beginning. And in the end, like German classic and was phenomenal. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Look, I, I would love to put a link to that video or embed that video into the show notes. So at the end of the episode, everybody, please go to the show notes, scroll down and click on that video. I, I wanna watch it. I think everybody should. That sounds just so exciting. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): it Jan 'Yarn' Muths: nice. One. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: I wanna steer back to the studio for a moment. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Just can you give us a rough idea how much time you, you spent in a studio to, to finish an album? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Not really because, you know, it's, it's impossible. It always depends on how many songs, what, what, what are my duties for the record? How much money is involved? Because like we had productions, which lasted. I don't know, 10 weeks like paid by, by a big major label with like everything. And now we need some classical elements and this, and then let's record. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I don't know, a, a flute player in a tunnel, you whatever, you know, like, so it, it can be very big. Sometimes just bands come in and having everything revamped and drums, programmed, and just doing some vocals and chop, chop, chop, and they don't have money for more than one week and you have to be done. So it's, it can be super different. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I'm open to all things. And I'm always trying to kind of level big productions with productions of young of small bands, young people don't have any money and always try to kind of do both. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And for your records is all the music coming from the studio or do you also sometimes take work home and do I don't know, keyboards at home or some extra guitar layers or so, and, and Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: it back to the studio. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): That that's, that's always happening. Ping ponging. And there's always those 2, 3, 4, 5 tracks. Wait, gimme a second. There's two, three. Okay. There's 2, 2, 3 or five tracks. Not tracks, like, I mean, single tracks from a session that remain from the Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah, right? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): you know, it's the same thing. You did something for the demo. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You, you, you can't recreate the feeling, but yeah, like lots of like overdo guitars and just effects and like programmings I do at home, you know, I don't have to drive all through Hamburg to the studio and back and lose. I don't know, one hour of my time in the. For just like pushing mid notes around, I do that at home or on tour or wherever which I like, I like being creative on tour or like just being productive, like doing edits, vocal edits, I just need headphones and mouse and pro tools, you know? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And for our last, for our upcoming records, from a lot of lost, which will be coming. I can't tell you when, but later, maybe next year, maybe this, we don't know. We wanted to have the magic that bands feel when they enter a studio for the first time. So I'm working in the very big studio in Hamburg, but I don't feel that magic. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): That's my day job. I go there. And then we're like, okay, at four o'clock, I need to be home. I pick up my son and then I do this and then I need to call my tax account. And then I have to go to the dentist tomorrow. Then I be, you know, there's no magic. I go there and I all see these bands coming and out in my studio all the time. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): And they're like, whoa, whoa. I wanted that. So we decided in March or April this year, we went to fin. To a studio which produced like many, many great bands, like, you know, amorphous night wish and all these bands, all these big finish bands, which has this magic. And when I read this studio name on records earlier on my own, like, oh, I wanna go to that studio. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): So we booked that studio. We went there for two weeks. We didn't fly. We drove there with our gear, so we had time to. Go there. Take our gear, have this class trip feeling. So we went there with my studio crew plus the whole band and we booked us the greatest people working for us. Like the our drum tech for tuning the drums was the X drummer of the band, him a band I'll listen to. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): As a teenager, you know, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Whoa. . Yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): and we went into the studio, which was a Sonic pump studios in Helsinki, amazing facilities. And we got there like, wow, you know, and we had that feeling and I hope this feeling can be hurt on the record. Then later. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Fantastic. Look. Is there such a thing, like, you know, too much time in a studio or if there's, is there like, you know, a certain workflow speed that is ideal for, for you? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Oh, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Nope. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah. 35 miles per hour. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: can it, can it get too, too tedious or, you know, frustrating in studios as well when there's too much time involved. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): no, not with me. I'm very fast because I can decide things just out of my, my stomach. You know? Like if, if it feels right, I I'm, I'm not the kind of guy who does not get finished. I know people like, you know, remember Exxel rose and Chinese democracy didn't finish the record for 14 years or something. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Couldn't couldn't ever. Couldn't ever happen to me if it feels right, I'm fine. I'm, I'm happy to let go at a certain point because I know that, of course, one year later, I would've done things differently. 10 years later, I would've done things differently, but it's not things I regret because 10 years later, you would've done everything differently. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I wouldn't, I wouldn't have traveled to tools on my arm. This was cool in the late nineties. But I don't regret them because I love them back then. It's a part of me, same with music. If I wait until forever to get finished, I will never be happy about anything in my life. So, you know, it's, I'm, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: these are really, really wise words. And a lot of people need to hear that because I, I know as a matter of fact, how many people are struggling to finish their own work and, you know, Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I know. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: many people work today just by themselves, at home and on their computers. And they don't have, you know, teams like you have, or, or the wisdom of, of, you know, knowing how to finish. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And that can be Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): know people that work on the five track EP for four years now. And they, meanwhile they hate these songs. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Don't don't do that. Don't just like put them out as long as you love them. it's. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yeah. That's that's. That's it. You just nailed it. I couldn't have said it any better. Cool, man. I think it's about time that we start wrapping things up. If people want to find out more about you and your band where should we send them to? Have you got a website that you would like to mention or Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): You know, we are on. We're in all social media, but we have them all linked on just lot of lost.de German website. There's so linked to all our social media things, but, you know, whatever you like, Spotify, YouTube, wherever, like we are every there everywhere. So no problem to find us. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Fantastic. Look, I'm gonna put the links of course, into the show notes. So again, just get to the end of it. Scroll down and click it and find out more just a couple of last things. You briefly mentioned that we might be able to see you in Australia. Is that something that you can comment on? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yes, I can. It's nothing is confirmed already and, you know, COVID and blah, blah, blah. But we are, we have been working on Australian shows for 2020 already then Corona happened. So we are. Actually discussing this dis sorry, discussing shows with an Australian promoter for sometime early 20, 23 is next year, right? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah. 20, 23. And Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Yes. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): yeah, we don't know many things can be in the way still, but. I mean, no one really knows us there. It, it, it will be like super small concerts with like maybe 100 people. But, you know, I love these things. We did the same thing when we first went to China or when we first went to the us in 2014, like having a road trip and. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Again, I must say we started doing music because we love music. If you only do music for the numbers, then you are lost anyway. So it's, you know, it's about the adventure and I, we would even pay money to do a tour in Australia just because. It's the thing we love, you know, , we, we, we do, we do, we do earn money with different things. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): I wouldn't pay money to give people t-shirts, you know, I need to earn money from selling merch, but playing Australia. course. Yeah. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Wow. Look, please keep me posted. I think that's super exciting and I will definitely be there. So let's catch up. You know, if, if you play in, in the area on the east coast, I'll be there definitely would be so nice to actually see you in person one day. Just the very LA very, very last question. Before we finish up, did I notice something on social media? Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Did you send any, any mail to the Pope? Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Yeah, we, we did Jan 'Yarn' Muths: What was Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): we Jan 'Yarn' Muths: what was in it. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): someone in the band came up with a funny idea to do sex toys at merch as merch. So we have these. Paperweights produced, which some people might think they are, but plugs and and and one of the, but plugs has my face on it. And not but plugs, paperweights, sorry, waits. And a friend of mine and I came up with the. Theory that the Catholic church, if they would, if they might be more open to paperweights and other office supplies like that, there would be less yeah. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Sexual abuse within their ranks of the Catholic church. So I thought I just sent a little package to the Vatican, to the Pope himself. Maybe it helps. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: You guys are crazy. All right, Chris, this is probably a good time to, to call it today. I know that your time is about up, so thank you so much for all of this. I, I really appreciate you making the time and, and what you shared with us is, is just pure gold. So thank you so much. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): thank you very much. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: that cheer made. Chris Harms (Lord Of The Lost): Looking forward to share the link to our fans. And I think they they'd love to listen. Hello guys, if you listen now right now, Jan 'Yarn' Muths: fantastic. Thank you. Chris, my friend, it's been an absolute honor to catch up with you again. And I had a great time chatting to you. You've shared so much amazing knowledge, and I really appreciate all the secrets and you know, all the wisdom that you just shared with us. And I'm still absolutely baffled just by how well you're doing musically and your career is really inspiration for all of us. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: At the end of this episode, we have another little story to share because after the interview we kept shedding and Chris and I remembered that in 2004, We were up to some shenanigans in Hamburg when we went to a place by the name of the old tunnel, which is a very unique place in Hamburg. It's an old tunnel under the elk river which ends on either side under a huge dome in some kind of a, you know, 24 meter deep lift cage where they transport cars up and down. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Leading to 400 or over 400 meter long tunnel under, under the river. It's quite an unbelievable structure, hard to imagine. So you really gotta see it. So Chris and I directed some drums into these, these tunnels in the middle of the night, and we annoyed some of the pedestrians there, but we got some recordings done. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: With me on the drums, just hitting it. And Chris doing some recordings. And I completely forgot about these recordings until Chris and I started chatting again. And then I went through my files and I actually found a file almost 20 years, which is quite fantastic. And then I reached out to Chris again about that file. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And it turns out that Chris actually also had a copy of the file. It ended up being a part of, one of the lot of the lost songs by the name of free radicals some kind of a B version or so I'm going to put the link into the show notes. Of course. So check out the. And to make it even more fun for everybody. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Chris and I agree to make this drum loop publicly available. It's a phenomenal sounding drum loop with heaps of Rever natural Rever from this space. So the drum loop is available for you to download in the show notes, head over there. You can work with the same. Is source material that a lot of the lost, produced their song free radicals with. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: So if you use it, it's free for you to use. You don't need to ask for permission, but please credit a lot of the lost and also mix artists.com you and tag us if you release any music with this beat. Okay. This is an extra little present for all of. Please make sure to give us a five star rating for this episode. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: And I would really love if you could also recommend this podcast series to all your musician, friends. If you would like to reach out to me directly, you can of course do so via my website mix artist.com, Dou, where I offer studio recording sessions on the east coast of Australia. And of course, online mixdown services for everyone worldwide it's mix artist.com Dou. Jan 'Yarn' Muths: Okay. That's all for today. Get ready for another amazing episode. Next week, when I am going to speak to one of Australia's most successful musicians of all. Times this is all for today. Please subscribe and share the podcast by for now.